[quote=galactuz]
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Originally Posted by yeemiau
Yeemiau,
I find your statement quite offending and biased towards the Chinese breeders. Although no doubt they are business oriented because they are a business entity compared to your sensei in Japan which mostly bred them for passion. So different people has different goals and objectives.
I think a ranchu is a ranchu and there's nothing called true/fake ranchu. Is either a pedigree bred or not. BTW I think it was well recognised that goldfish originated from China and not Japan. The Japanese turned the keeping of goldfish into an art that elevated it to another level. Both side deserves credit don't you think??
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Please correct me if I'm wrong.
My statement is all based on facts. If you say Lionhead or so called tigerhead. No doubt it is originated from China. Ranchu is the offspring from those, after much hardwork and generations of development. Naturally, Japanese named the offspring "Ranchu". Many years ago, chinese breeders imported Ranchu to China for MASS breeding yet it did not match the conformation of a true ranchu. But with the name ranchu, the fish can fetch a better price. Yet hardly anyone at that time able to bring in Japanese breed due to communication problems. Even now, if someone able to bring Japanese Ranchu in, the price tag will be sky high. Why? Just because it is rare and expert hobbist knows it is THE pedigree; the mark up and margin is at least 150-200%. (Our group has imported ourself a batch of 73 last year for our own raising skill practice use and we know the cost very well.)
Obviously, we can see the short body it has, as well as the formation of the wen; yet, they name it Ranchu and export it to other country. It is fair enough that people willing to pay for a sub-standard "so-called pedigree" with certain price tag, that's business which I can't complain about; business is business. But it is not fair to the ranchu hobbist. By right, they can only name it Chinese Goldfish but we cannot stop them naming it ranchu. But officially, the Japanese Goldfish Association does not recognise this so-called bloodline. Most of all, by the standard, there is no side view standard for Ranchu; it's only for top view. We also have the annual AJRS report plus judging rules and regulations for the past many years; and with our understanding of the Ranchu conformation as stated in the rule book, chinese "ranchu" standard and conformation is not even close to that.
Ok, let's be fair to all. I'm only streamline in Kyokai bloodline. Still there's Uno and Oosakaranchu bloodline, that my group knows a little bit. In any angle, we don't see any Chinese "ranchu" matching the main characteristic of those mentioned bloodline. When ones cannot conform to the characteristic, it only considered as "normal goldfish" or, as Japanese explained "TanKyo" (Egg Fish); not Ranchu. For extreme example, we can't name a Boxer as "BullDog". Or, there's no such thing as "Chinese Sushi" Also, Alvin Lim, Chairman of Vermillion Goldfish Club and Ozeki Ranchu Club from Singapore has a more-or-less same point of view. You can ask him about it
IF he comes to Malaysia for goldfish competition visit.
Even before I know about this fact, I've spend thousands on Chinese "ranchu" too. Until I dig deep enough to know the fact. All my group want to do is to send a clear message to all about the fact behind these Ranchu business. People sell Chinese "Ranchu" might really hate us about it but that's the fact we wanna bring out. I'm not 110% sure that I know the head to toe history about Ranchu, but I'm pretty sure that what I wrote in this post has all the facts behind it.
Some fact, 1748 is the year of the official naming of the fish as 卵虫 or らんちゅう or Ranchu/Rantyu. but in writing, 蘭鋳 means better than 卵虫, (almost identical pronouncation) therefore today's 蘭鋳 or Ranchu/Rantyu. In １８８5, 石川亀吉 (ishikawa kameyoshi, now you know why Ishikawa's Ranchu is so so so expen$$$ive!) starts the first competition then slowly, it spread into 3 bloodlines; and, in 1956 日本らんちゅう協会 ( Japan Ranchu Association) formed therefore the AJRS.
Finally, if you can read chinese, you can visit
www.lanshou.net. There is a report done by someone in neutral groud explaining the whole history of people from Fuk Joe, Mainland China (I hope i got the spelling right) bringing in Ranchu from Japan in the 80s and cross breed it with Lionhead to create the current "Chinese Ranchu". Or you can use internet translation to translate
http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~ranncyuu/ranncyuu.html to know the history of Ranchu (How the fish is developed, naming, spreading, etc.)
I hope my explaination doesn't offend anyone, If it does, please except my sincere apologies but it is just facts that I'm putting in.
Lastly, I have to make it clear that many other Ranchu breeders (for business) in Japan carries the same attitude as my sensai. Business with passion, ethics and dignity.