Angels with with white spots that is apparently NOT ich ?

[a77ila]

A couple of days ago something white started appearing on my angelfishes, and as it manifested as white spots I thought it was ich at first (which I have encountered and treated several times). However, after unsuccessful treatment against ich I noticed these distinct differences between this case and ich I have seen before:

- appears ONLY around the eyes (does not appear on fins or the body even in the advanced stages of the disease), above the eye at first and below the eyes as well when in final stages
- it is SYMMETRICAL on both sides of the head (!!!) - this is the most peculiar thing
- the number of spots does NOT change
- it appears in the SAME shape and layout on ALL infected fish (~12 fish so far)
- the spots are not actually spots (at least while there is no secondary infection), but rather as something being secreted or grown from the inside (it can grow to 4-5mm in length)
- the fins are in EXCELLENT shape, no rot or excess mucus
- does not change position (e.g. it does not fall of and reappear someplace else)
- does not react to methyl-blue/ich cures


High(er) res photos can be found at
http://www.prometheus.org.yu/gallery...g2_itemId=2798

If anybody has any idea what this is I'd be grateful, it's very demoralizing to watch the fish die one by one because I don't know what to treat them for

[Pilik-Palak]

Hi a77ila,
from my viewing 'who's on line',u been waiting quite long time..sorry for lately reply.
IMO,
ur angels might having 'hole in the head' disease.I m usually treat it with metrobenzoles that buy from chemist.400mg in 20 gallon of water and 200gm of salt for 4 days.i do not know this is the right doses as my fish cure arter several doses.u can try 'octozin' from waterlife in tablet form.other brand medication ,never try b4.Hope some1 who more expert can help.cheers

[a77ila]

thanks for your reply ! I'm not sure it's hole-in-the-head, though, perhaps the larger images in the gallery show it better but it seems to me the ooze starts off from the [b]inside[b] and eventually breaks through the skin (as if lymphs or some other fish anatomy-related points get infected). Don't let the size of the sniffing/breathing hole (? if that's the name in english) above the mouth fool you, the image is a really-really closeup (the whole fish is 6-7cm long)

[standoyo]

this isn't HITH. in HITH the flesh literally drops off in chunks.

looks like an infection of the fish 'sinuses' with some fungus thats resistant to MB.
best thing you can do is to do a 70% wc and do a 1 ppt[100g 100l] salt treatment first to see how it goes. in mean time, you can try a 3ppt salt dip for the fish. 5 to 30 minutes. remove fish as soon as you see it tilt.

[Andrew Soh]

Hey 77,

You are truely a great photographer...I must give credit.....the micro-focus is so clear...the mouth...the eye....the nostril.....the scales...... and the only point that is out of focus is the most important....the infection site.

Just a joke brother...but is true..see for yourself.....what happened?

Anyway, this is very common both in discus and in angels and is caused by encapsulated parasite (especially bacteria) breaking free and the whitish thread is the byproduct (waste) of the feasting of tissue.

At a point in time, some of the bacteria were able to penetrate the epidermis during stressful and suboptimal condition but the body was able to encapsulate some of them, preventing further attack. The immune will keep on building tough walls around each or a group of bacteria preventing them from causing harm or escaping...thus forming nodules which are not visible with the nake eye. You may also find these nodules in the intestinal wall and spleen.

Now, there must be a drop of the water quality (suboptimal condition or/ and stress) and weakening of the immune to allow the encapsulated bacteria to proliferate.

'Mycobacterium (TB)' bacterium is usually found together with this problem...but not sure whether it is the primary culprit.

To the solution...nothing much you can do except these:

1) Do 3 x PP treatments with a week to lessen the total paraite load in the tank. Also this will oxidize any bacteria in the tiny open-wounds that are exposed to the PP treated water.

2) After the above, treat the fishes with metronidazole (as it is also effective against certain bacteria) for 12 days @ 1.5 gm per 100 litre of water.

Try and see how,
Andrew

[standoyo]

yes...before it's too late...

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[Andrew Soh]

Seems like you are trying to advertise and sell here, Mark?

Is that permitted???

Further more, this is unrelated to the thread. Should advertise or promote in a non-fish column or thread.

Andrew

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