Hi,

I am for one did not agree with this statement, to tell that using ADA soil, nothing is learnt or little skill learnt. The learning process will be a lot easier, maybe.

Yes, you can grow plants by just simply poking them into the soil, heck, anybody can grow plants by just poking them into the plain gravel. But how well this plant grow?. Do they grow up to its potential? Or merely alive, with yellowing leaves, waiting to melt away and die?. And finally is this what you want for your planted tank? No matter what substrate or soil you use, whether it is ADA soil or just plain gravel, as long as you growing something, I bet you will learn something and with that your skill will developed.

Only thing is, with good substrate, you can try difficult plants, but still, it is the same thing, you will learn something too. You will learn plants need food to strive not only to keep them alive. You will learn if you don't have enough ferts, plant will not grow up to its potential. You will learn plant needs CO2. Not enough CO2, plant don't do well, algae will instead. You will learn what sort of lighting is needed for this or that plant. ADA soil helps a lot initially, but as time goes by, even ADA soil will depleted of its goodness. I am not merely repeating this. I have experienced it myself. From plain Holland sand to base fert and to ADA soil. What other ‘guru’ said maybe as guidelines, may or may not the whole truth, but you have to do it yourself to know the best solutions for you giving the various parameters involved (water, lighting, CO2 etc). What I can do only to state the obvious, which may or may not works for you. To totally ignore and laugh at others about their suggestions, is wrong too. Do it and see for yourself. ADA soil will not solve your problem (even at 75%), but you will. You can have the most expensive stuff for your tank, but with a lack of knowledge, you won’t go far. Skill will be developed as you go along.

In short, to have a good skill in planted tank and dealing problems comes with it, got nothing to do with your choice of the substrate. And finally, what is it, with being cocky to do with planted tank. This kind of attitude will definitely shy away anyone (old or new) to have a good Q & A session. Even if you are one “know it all” kind of person, that’s not meant you have stopped learning altogether?. But what would I know, it is your method anyway.

Best Regards

Different target groups of consumers. Besides its just a hobby. Those who cannot afford or who like experimenting can still get good results if they get good advise from sifus like Diana Walstad, Dom,etc. DIY stuff can also be instant if you know how. But slightly more work.

Those who like to get good results from reliable ready made methods can also do so.I suppose you will also need to do some research before getting costly stuff. Conditions may differ form country to country, e.g. water quality, temperature, lighting,etc.

Mr Guru.. ...Please u hav nothing to prove here....and i dont want to go the distance with u...
My attitude is my problem...either people shy away or not is up to them to decide...unless u are taking roll call.
u dont like my method...thats another case ...im writting all this under request...DO I HAVE TO STOP CLASS ON THE ACCOUNT U DONT LIKE MY ATTITUDE???....

Maybe u dont read too good....and surely all my tracks are written with tongue in cheek......take my jokes serious ...then i dont blame u for picking a bone or two with me...but all i can say is ...u would be picking it alone......

but i sure as hell remember writtin in your track...I WANTED TO LEARN FROM YOU on that M.minutus thing...could swear on my grand daddy's grave ..i mention "I want to learn from u " in a very polite manner...guess u overlook that huh...and i was wondering where u got the idea I STOP LEARNING......and IM A KNOW IT ALL PERSON......maybe u have this thing about me giving folks so much information...the kind u wont find in books...or maybe folks shouldnt be told at all.

YUP... u are right ......WHAT WOULD YOU KNOW!

gee..i didnt knew u felt offended when i mention ADA soil is giving folks a 75% advantage.....maybe with your ADA goodies u took it i meant u are only 25% skillfull.

u can comment all u want on my methods ..i have no quarrel over this ...but ...my personnel attitude is something u dont comment.

so please .....read carefully next time...before u make a fool of yourself.

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Everyone Has a Photographic Memory..........some just dont have film!

in my life time ..i have set up hundreds of planted tanks, tested hundreds of different plant species... for my clients....but for my own personnel tank i would go back to the basic, planting the way i know best..using cheap diy equipment, cheap fine gravel, cheap ferts etc etc....in this way my skills are tested.....whats the point of having ADA soil...since we learn nothing....poke your plants in ADA soil...guarantee they will grow....u attain the GURU statues with your lovely plants....but take away ADA ...u cant even grow peanuts!!!....thats the gospel truth.

When i judge a Tank ...the first thing i would look at is the substrate....only then i look at the plants and its age. and if u have fine gravel substrate and your plants are rooting nicely and happens to spell exotic species...i would say...brader your tank is A1...top class. tell me your story.
but if the substrate is ADA or any other expensive soil...your tank will not receive a closer inspection from me no matter what exotic plants u have....simply because 75% of your battle is being won by purchasing with hard cash! very little skill by yourself.

I can't believe what i read! hahaha. That's a pretty outrageous statement!
ADA soil doesn't win 75% of the battle!

It's nice to use for aesthetic appeal and doesn't cloud water for first time setups but for rescaping it's a different story.

I love holland sand and ADA soil, both have their advantages and disadvantages but certainly not a 75% difference!

Regards

Stan

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So many aquascapes, so little time...http://www.my-mac.net/forum/

First of all I am a novice (green head boy) in aquatic planting. In my opinion, I started with ADA soil coz I was really impressed with the term "nature aquarium". The nature aquarium hobby really give a sense of peace and calmness by trimming and improve on the scaping

ADA soils give you a different method approached to aquatic planting. It's different and let you concentrate more on aquascaping instead. I am learning from all the master here in this forum although you guys are much younger than me. When comes to the question of skills that shouldn't arise. It's an experience and journey rather than skill. I know this is sensitive but sometimes pride and ego comes in the equation. Everyone is evolving so it's technology, and ADA gives us the advantage why not use it. I must admit ADA give us an upper hand in planting but it's not free of problems. Maybe different set of problems.

I am very impress with Stan, from the picture still very young and very knowledgable and very diplomatic approach. I do not want to create any enemy here. just my opinion.

peace

ari,
i m not yet post my setup...how u knw it is nice? kopi or kopi o with or without foam also no problem.

btw, i knw a guy using full set of ADA. but any plants he poke in the ADA soil...and will die in few days. Can you imagine he was trying to grow cabomba inside his tank with ADA soil n power sand. And cabomba died in 3 days time!

For my experience, as long as you know how to use it. Cheap or expensive stuff have their own value and usage. I believe in most of the ADA products. coz of their QC. Hassle free...

I can't believe what i read! hahaha. That's a pretty outrageous statement!
ADA soil doesn't win 75% of the battle!



I love holland sand and ADA soil, both have their advantages and disadvantages but certainly not a 75% difference!

Regards

Stan[/quote]

Yup....its outrageous...and expect nothing less.... as being such is the ARI's trademark....boy ...u are just getting to know me .

Yes...it does win 75% of the battle....u cant go wrong with ADA unless...u have no basics at all....im sure if u personally could grab some ADA soil for your new setup...your confidence would be sky high even before u started planting...your worries will everything else but the soil...and this what i mean by 75%.....and u of all people should know that!

Holland sand is always a up hill struggle...a 50/50 chances depending on how good u are. Even with all years of skill...u wouldnt dare say GUARANTEE grow!

The catch is ...if u succeed in growing DIFFCULT plants with holland gravel..u will feel the sense of victory ...u did it..............BUT if u fail in growing SIMPLE plants with ADA soil...then u would start asking questions.

thats why ...i never encourage newcomers to use ADA...in time they will make their choice on what soil to use after they have attain some experience.

and it should be a known fact by now....this track is writting for the benefit of newcomers and novice who is having trouble with their plants....i cannot guide them the proper way...if i tell them to use ADA soil...they have to learn the hard way...like i did....from the bottom up... ...im sure i would be a very happy man ...if they one day would say ..."Hell...I could plant that ..dont even need ADA"

If u all the Experts here ...see things like i do...my job would be made alot easier...my time would be spend distributing informations ...not spend defending my Pride...and u would be a fool to believe i do not have one

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Everyone Has a Photographic Memory..........some just dont have film!

Ari, if grow difficult plants by using construction sand. consider expert or not?

hahaha...u talking ah fren...cobomba is a very diffcult plant to keep hor..i also takut with cobomba la...especially the botak bottom part...NO clue until today how to overcome that.
yea...i havent tried cobomba with ADA...should be something to think about.

YEs...needless to say ADA is the miracle product...with some skill u could do wonders with it. infact i love their product ...and just like u say hassle free...

BUT...is this the the right soil for beginners??....will they learn anything the hard way?....i heard stories about you Dom...i respect the way u work your way up..u did in 3 years what it took me 5........a very very fast learner...hahaha...u forget ...what kind of business im in....and KL is a small place.

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Everyone Has a Photographic Memory..........some just dont have film!

Hi Dom, i think you told me this one before. ADA step 1,2,3 all in one go right? OD. lol!

Hey Ari,
Some people save and save to get ADA Aquasoil only to kena from you. I am one of them!
Those days[5 years ago here] no ADA soil but can still grow plants with lapis/holland sand.
I started with lapis sand back then and still use it.
It's still one of my favourites because i like to move plants here and there.
However,I like to put aquasoil on the fg to plant glosso and like amazonia because the black colour makes the plants stand out better.
recently started using white fine sand as foreground as the fishes look more stunning when they swim to the front due to the light bounce.


Hi Callisto,
keeping the peace is important to get idea exchange.
IME moody/belligerent postings can be easily misinterpret and cause some fireworks but also good if none is taken personally though Ari is very flamboyant and if you cut out the flaming his posts are indeed insightful and entertaining.

[FYI, me look young only!]

Regards
Stan

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So many aquascapes, so little time...http://www.my-mac.net/forum/