Hi Nasfish,

After I read what you posted, I i felt that i'm wrong and confused too

But anyway, just something more detail...
I'm having a standard 4ft tank, DIY co2, but i'm too lazy to measure the ph and kh to get the readings...
NO3 level...i'm not sure cause i don't have the tester.
I have 5 x 36W FL with diy 2 reflectors. so roughly about 180W, and WPG calculation is roughly about...
180W devide by 60G = 3 WPG

When they grew red, that time i only dose Ferropol after water changes, and Ferropol 24 everyday. Calculations shows that i need around 5-6 drops everyday, but i increase to 7-8 drops everyday, so over dosing it as i don't add any other ferts since i have 11 neon tetra, 2 albino cory, 1 CAE, some feeder prawns, 6 yamato shrimps, 2 otto and plenty of snails. I think they could generate reasonable amount ammonia, KNO3 and i over feed them to get more PO4.

But then after a water change disaster, 50% water change killed all my neon tetra and my newly bought 2 SAE, so we can see how bad is our water, and my area is affected with the smelly water case, and these days we have ALOT chlorine in our water, I can actually smell it when i'm taking bath, feels like at the pool side. So then I rescaped my tank and i bought 11 cardinals this time, 2 SAE, 1 banana shrimps, and 5 cherry shrimps.
My ferropol 24 is used up, so i haven't buy it yet. Now i only dose rough ammount of KNO3, K2SO4 and KH2PO4 to my tank, using fert calculator to calculate the targeted ammount, then i measure them and mix with water, and then apply to the tank. So i dose the 1/5 of the targeted amount everyday 3 days, and dose 1/2 of the targeted ammount everyday water changes. I also dose Epson Salt now. But i'm sorry to say that i don't have all the measurements of the water parameters. I'm Sorry

So now, i only does the above mentioned...no additional Fe tabs or Ferropol 24 use for now. But i'm interested to try out the Hagen - Nutrafin Plant Gro Iron Enriched, i saw it with a newer series, that promise to have more Iron in the bottle.

Regards,
John

Here in KL, 250ml is RM56.20 (some gives 10% discount). I believe what you saw is 500ml which cost around RM90.00. Please do check again to confirm this. Anyway, if to compare with US market pricing for example ADA Brighty Steps Series sell at US18.00 (www.adgshop.com), around RM 68.40, cheaper than what we have here. IMO, better to buy a bigger bottle to save money in long run.

I think Hagen have a product called Nutrafin Plant Gro NPK to provide macros same as loose ferts. But, to get the targeted amount N, P and K, you have to dose a lot (really). Sera also have a product called Flore Plus, (growth promoter with macro nutrients) in tablet form. I don't know about other commercial product (besides ADA, Hagen and Sera) that actually provide macro nutrients. Somebody know, please do tell.

Still, loose ferts (dry ferts) are better and cheaper for dosing macros. Better because you really can target the specific amount or ppm of each N, P and K. and a lot cheaper, 100 grams will last you a long time. Anyway it is funny that most of the commercial fertilizers, proudly stated "No Nitrates and Phosphates" as this will induce algae. But we do need it to grow plants, and yet again no serious algae problems.

By the way, standoyo, which micro ferts do you use currently?. Is it any better?

Best Regards

Hi John,

Sorry to hear about your fish. Maybe you need to do a smaller WC instead, instead 50%, maybe 20-30% twice a week?. Just a suggestion. I think some tap water (especially here in Malaysia) have some bad substances, rust, heavy metals, chlorine, not good for fish. Unless you use RO of some kind of tap water filter.

This confirmed my guest earlier. You are running lower NO3 level. It is not only because Fe dosing. Even though you have plenty bioload, and over feed them, the N is still low, that N form is not easily absorbed by the plants (have to be decomposed first, takes time) as easy as N, we dose from dry KNO3, instant N.

Looks like you dose low. If everything is fine, I will not change a thing. Just wonders why.

Yes, I have been using this too. Recently bought a 500ml Nutrafin Plant Gro Iron Enriched with the new label. I must say the contents is the same as previous. Only different I think of, beside new label, is the dosing instruction. 10 ml per 75.6 liter now, 10 ml per 70 liter previously.
It is a good micros fert, IME, have been using it on my 2.5 feet tank, right from the start. The only thing is to figure out right amount to dose for your specific tank. The dosing instruction says 10ml/75.6liter, so roughly you will need 30ml for your 60g tank weekly (0.3 mg/l Fe). If you to dose daily (better, I think), you will need 10ml to provide 0.1 mg/l Fe daily. So economically, it is a lot cheaper. Hope this will help you to decide further.

Bought Nutrafin Plant Gro Iron Enriched (RM 22.50) and Plant Gro NPK (RM22.00) from 88Marine.

Best Regards

I used Hagen Nutrafin iron plus for micros but ran out. Thinking the npk one was similar since it was sold out 3 months ago i have had a hard time growing stuff. have realised it by now and using some ADA [sky blue one] and some Dennerle V30/E15 to supplement.
Have started using some stuff Ruslan Jamil was kind enough to give me some since the last MAC workshop. must say it was quite instant in terms of results since my plants was micro starved. pearling was observed in minutes!

I have bought almost 70% of the stuff the lfs sell and have a lot of half bottles so i'm trying to used them up.

This means i've heard almost all the sales pitch of all the various makers.

The premium ones are good if you have the money.
The medium ones also work well but are not so easy to calibrate to your tank. I have three tanks and they all have different needs! makes me me climb up the wall sometimes!
Loose ferts really take a lot of understanding and patience but is the most economical of all.

Regards

Stan

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So many aquascapes, so little time...http://www.my-mac.net/forum/

Thanks Nasfish!
You're so kind and patient to go through my long post! And the best part is that you thought me alot! I didn't know that there's so much different dosing and not dosing KNO3 to the tank, and the effects, NOW I ONLY KNOW! HAHA!

Anyway, I'm kinda thinking am i dosing the right amount of N-P-K, cause i don't have the test kits yet...cant afford to buy them 1 shot, sometimes thinking...buying 1 by one also scared...cause me as a student poket money is very limited...so don't dare to touch those expensive stuff yet.

But i'm hoping to hear from you guys who use loose ferts to dose the tank, or make up liquid mixtures to dose the tank daily. I found some dosing guide line, named PPS, the dosing ways looks reasonable, but then again, i don't have the test kits to test...
SO please kinda share the fert mixing and dosing guides of yours if you don't mind to share with us here.

I currently have:
KNO3
K2SO4
KH2PO4
Epson Salt (MgSo4)

Regards,
John

The method most suited for those without test kits or those with test kits but are too lazy to test is the Estimative Index (EI) that is promoted by Tom Barr. Basically you dose a known concentration of nutrients and every week you do a 50% water change to make sure there are no harmful build up of chemicals. Go to http://www.barrreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2062 for the new less technical 'EI-Lite' article or http://www.barrreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1 for the in-depth article.

Hi,

John, glad to help. But if my post somehow incorrect, please guys who knows better to correct it, we are here to share and learn.

You don't have to have test kits to dose NPK, like RuslanJamil said, using EI fertilizing method, everything is estimative, no need to be accurate. If you overdose, you can always reset by do 50% water change. Some says it is an excess method, everything (NPK) is in excess. It is there where plants need it. It seems that under dose is the main problem for most people.

I have discussed this in length in my tank thread here about making KNO3, KH2PO4 and Epsom Salts solutions. You can also make your own solutions with different volume using this Aquatic Plant Central fertilator to determine how many x grams in y milliliters water to give a specific ppm of each NO3, PO4, K and Mg. It is important too, to know the maximum solubility of each loose ferts. Maximum solubility per 100ml of water for KNO3 is 35.7 grams, KH2PO4 is 22.0 grams, K2SO4 is 12.0 grams and Epsom Salts is 35.6 grams. You can't completely (100%) dissolved 100 grams KNO3 into 250ml of water for example. But, 100 grams KNO3 mix into 500ml of water will completely dissolved KNO3.

Recommended ppm for NO3 is 10ppm per dose, PO4 1-2ppm per dose, K 10 ppm per dose. Dose that 3 times a week. For Mg, if you have soft water, or have some Mg deficiency like curling leaves, dose 2-5ppm Mg either weekly after water change or daily around 0.5ppm Mg. You don't need K from K2SO4, if you dose enough KNO3 and KH2PO4, because K from these two is enough. But if you think you need to dose more K, then by all means, use K2SO4. Anyway, some people like to dose dry, easier, using a teaspoon. If you want to dose dry, take a look at the link provided by RuslanJamil.

After all that, I must say this thread is dedicated to micros, to determine which brand of micro nutrients product used the most in Malaysia and why.

Best Regards

Wah, I wonder what is that wonderful stuff you got from RuslanJamil?
Migh want to try it too!.

Try to find more information about Dernnele product on the net, and all the best I can get is here. It seems that they name it E15 and V30 for a reason. E15 dose on the 15th and V30 dose on the 30th of each month. And they dose it not based on water volume of the tank but based on top up water volume after water change, instead. Now I know why this product expensive. High concentration. Only need to dose about 1-2 times monthly. But I do not like the idea of dosing that seldom, because the less frequent you dose, the more chances (forgetful) that you don't dose at all. I am sure it is great product. I like the A1, for daily dosing of trace elements. Only 4 drops per 100 liters.

About all the sales pitch from various manufacturer, all i can hear and read is this or that product is 'good' for your aquarium and your plants. But how good it really is, you have to use it and see it for yourself. Every tank is different. Try to ask people at LFS selling the product, don't have any clues mostly. Display tanks is the best bet, IMO.

Best Regards

Hi Nasfish,

I liked to try anything that claimed to be superior. [always believe don't knock it till you try]
However, everything happens so slow i don't really think i can say for sure the product is super. I've had good results with a mid range sera 'simple as it gets' combo.
BTW, i've never used A1 beyond the 7 pack combo that included water conditioner.

The only repeat fert buys i have are Nutrafin iron plus, Sera florenette/florena, some Dennerle, ADA multi long bottom, Ista root monster.
I'm trying to simplify yet wanting to try TMG, Ferka and Lushgro.

Now i'm just fiddling with loose ferts and trying to phase out the not so great stuff considering loose ferts are like 100x cheaper.

With the advent of reliable fertilization methods like EI and PPS, it's safe to say many designer fert makers will take heed and not overcharge for fancy marketing.

Warm regards

Stan
ps. Ask Ruslan, he may have a stash.

__________________
So many aquascapes, so little time...http://www.my-mac.net/forum/

I used Tetra FloraPride... it made my alge pride, instead of flora.....
Then I switched to JBL Floropro.... uses till now, seeing good result(consider oklah for a newbie like me, and comparing to a tank without fert).....
But I found that these liq fert get ''oxidited' pretty fast. Their color will change to kind of 'yellowish' when oxidited. So, as my tank is only a 20something little mini tank.... I go for a smaller JBL Floropro, 100ml type. I think I get it with RM14. Dosage:1ml per day......