Hi all,

I stay around PJ. Have read fair bit on this forum, it gives me great pleasure learning so many things from enthusiastic experts in planted tanks.

FYI, I had 2 years of breeding goldfish and now tire with it so have decided to switch my 3ft tank to planted tank for a try. I want to start slow so planning to just get beginners' plants that require low lighting & easy to maintain plants.

I have got the gravel & Fert and Co2 system sorted out after reading enough fr this forum :

For my base : Got the 200l Dennerle fert & 35kg holland sand & 500g Aquaclay substrate

Co2 : Got Co2 regulator (auto) and 2kg tank from Hardware store (recommended in forum). Bought the rest of the accessories from a fish shop in Kepong.

Tank : Existing 3 Ft

Lighting : existing 2 light - 20w Powerglo and AquaGlo (Hagen)

Filter : Rena XP2

Anyway, I need advice on a few things from experts in the forum :-

1) Please recommend some beginers' plants that can easlier grow ? I know of the basic such as Java Fern & Anubias . i) Which type of plant to get for the front of the tank, ii) in the middle iii) the back of the tank iv) do you really need any floating plants for beginer.

2) I think reading fr this forum, my lighting will not be sufficient, but since I am trying to get plants that require low lighting, will it be fine for 40w (2 x 20W lighting) or can I switch the tube to something more powerful ? Any recommendation ? I do not intend to get another lighting until later.

3) What sort of algale eaters should I get for a start ? I understand a variety is good, but please provide some name that the local fish shop has it & the price.

4) What fish and prawn are compatible to planted tanks ? Am thinking of Neon Tatra and crystal prawn. Any suggestion snail that dont eat plants ? What else can I put ?

5) Can I use the waterflow pump for planted tank ? I find it a waste since I used it for my goldfish for bubbles and waterflow. Reading fr forum, it is not advisable to use it as it will get rid of the Co2 in the water. Is that true ?

6) For 3ft tank, how many bubble per second should I tune it ? I was told to put 2 bubble per second for 3 ft. Is it enough. Am using a cheap ceramic disuffer.

7) I have not use my Rena filter for 1 mth, is it ok to just wash my filter with water and continue to use the mediums in the filter such as, bio-rings, etc ? Just worry that other bacteria has started to grow inside that can kill my fish & plants later.

Anyway, where to get good reasonable price plants, fish, prawn ? I heard of 88 Marine, NA and East Aqua. Where will be better & cheaper ? I dont see any snail for sale in any of the fish shops also ? I plan to go this weekend to get the plants.

Wld greatly appreciate feeback or if you can email me directly. I am trying to get all the sifu's advice before I start my planting & they will be no turning back....

kevinPJ

Nice to see so much enthusiasm in planted tanks... one of the longest thread iv read... thing tat caught my eye was how we are opposite... Iv been on planted tanks for years, and only recently started on goldfish... am also in PJ.

Ur setup sounds all ready to go... i will try to answer some of ur many questions:

1) Easy plants for me are the Amazon sword varieties, ie. big ones for bg n small/pygmy for fg. Some how i never had luck in keeping the so called easy/low lite ones like anubias or java.

2) How much lighting depends on the plants ur keeping. For more lites i suggest PowerCompacts at 40W each. Or the new thin T5 tubes.

3) For algae, i use shrimps only. Yamato r the hardiest.

4) I dont add snails. In fact am trying to rid/control the pests by using pygmy puffers.

5) Dont need waterflow pump for planted tanks. Its true, bubbles and hi-water flow is a nono for plants.

6) How much CO2 depends on ur lighting n plants. More plants more lite more CO2. Achieving balance between these 3 is the secret to a beautiful planted tank.

7) Id say its safe to re-use. I would soak them over-nite at least.

I favor 88 for evrything in general. Sometimes Ikano for plants.

I started planting in '99 with a 2 footer, then moved to a 4', now on a 6'. Also tried marines n kois. But planting always stayed

Happy gardening!

CnT

Hi Kevin,

Welcome on board. Hobbyist changing their hobbies everytime. I was into different type of hobbies as well. Till I found i love aquascaping. Let me try my best to answer you.

1) The beginner plant is always the mosses and riccia. Mosses are able to grow between 24-28C. The lowest temperature the nicer they can be. But not below 20C. This is same to jave fern or windelov. If high temperature, they will turn to brown or black. Then die off.
Basically riccia need quite a strong lighting n CO2 to grow. Due to it is pearling easily. Lot of newbies like it. You can just let it float on the water surface to get close to the lighting. Or just tie it on the rock or wood.
Middle ground plants can be Cryptocoryne species. Wendtii and Cordata are easier to source from lfs. Beside that, Anubias species like barteri or nana is good for middle ground if you are placing the rock or wood in the middle ground. Remember that, anubias and fern are able to grow on the wood or rock. Their roots will melt if you planting it inside the gravel.
Background plants can be Echinodorus species like the normal sword plant which you can get from lfs. Or you can get nicer species like Red Rubin, Rose, Oriental, etc. But the price is above RM25 each and they grow up to 1.5-2ft height. Cyperus helferi which look like 'lalang' is cheap. It is always my favourite plant. A bunch cost rm1 to rm1.5 only. Beside that, Valisneria species is easy to keep as well. Other than that, you can get Blyxa aubertii.
There are lot of plants which I can name it. But not all the lfs know the name and you might need to google it for the picture. Print it out and show to the lfs.

2) 40W in total is good enough for moss and cryptocoryne tank. But not for others. Beside the T5 like CNT mentioned. You can get the PLL tube which is 36W and it is just 1 feet long. And you may need few pieces. Remember this, once you are having higher lighting. You need to inject more CO2. Otherwise, hair algae will grow before any plants. And once you are having higher lighting. You need to take care of the water temperature as well. A 6" DC fan will help. Chiller is a good choice. But pricy.

3) Make sure your tank water parameter is stable. Otherwise the yamato shrimp will just jump out or climb out the tank. Oto is another good algae eater. But they will live only when stable tank also. The best choice for newbie is SAE (Siamese Algae Eater). Get 1 or 2 pieces will do. Be carefull when you are getting it. Because there is another not so usefull algae eater named as Flying Fox look similiar with SAE.

4) You can mix the tetra or smaller fishes with shrimp. Normally we are not calling it as Prawn. Crystal Red Shrimp is kind of pricy and required a bit of experience and knowledge to keep it. Try with Cherry shrimp first. There is a type of snail named as Tiger snail which help to clean some algae. And they will not eat plant. Please DON'T get the crayfish aka lobster which will destroy your layout and plants. Because they like to dig and they eat plants.

5) The water flow pump you mean should be the overhead filter which is not advisable. And yes. It will release the CO2 to air fast. Trust me. I am keeping 2 monitor boxes which full of this kind of filter. For new tank, you can turn on the air pump when the lighting is off. Because of the fishes and plants do need more oxygen aka O2 to breath. Plants do need CO2 only when the photosynthesis is running and will provide enough O2 to fishes.

6) How many of CO2 is depends on what kind of plants do you have and the amount of plants do you have. And of coz, mosses, fern, anubias do need lower CO2 than stem plants. 2bps is good enough for low maintenance plants. But 3-4bps for stem plants.

7) Yes. You can re-use the filter. Try to get 2 pieces of ADA bacter ball and put inside the filter. It will help to gain and grow the bacteria grow.

Sometime different lfs will stock different plants and other stuff. You may need to make few rounds to check out. Beside the lfs you mentioned. Fish Paradise in Center Point shopping center which next to McDonald. Han Yang in Klang. Aquatic World in Damansara Damai. Kim Fatt in Kepong. Irene in Paramount. Desa Aqua in Tmn Desa are the lfs with planted tank stuff. My favourites are still NA in ss19 Subang, 88 marine (3 branches- Maluri, SunwayMas and Subang) and Fish Paradise.

NA stocking some snails if i am not mistake. If sold out. You can check with the boss - Mr Yee.

Happy hunting...

__________________
www.my-mac.net brand new forum for aquascaping hobbyist.

Wow 3 post and already as long as red carpet!

1) Front-dwarf hairgrass- Eleocharis acicularis, Echinodorus tennelus, Liliaopsis brasilensis, mosses.
mid-mini riccia, Cryptocoryne wendtii, blyxa japonica, nana, java fern,
back-bolbitis heudelotii, vallis nana, Cryptocoryne balansae, Cyperus helferi.
[crypts can be melty!]
Generally mosses, ferns and crypts will be your cup of tea other than anubias.

2) for 3ft tank, big boy brand can fit 2X3ft FL tubes. suggest you have two of these. You can take this to the lfs[eg 88] to mod 2X24W pl later if you need more watts.
This will be medium lighting category and is low maintenance. Low lighting is very limiting in your choice of plants and is not recommended unless you want to do non co2 method.

3)ditto the rest

4)tetras, rasboras, microrasbora...

5)not

6)should be enough unless your diffusor is really crap! [cheap can be good though!]

7)wash and rinse is fine. disinfect if you had problems before. PP or Peroxide will do.

I'd add Taman Desa Aquarium that those listed. little known and sometimes with surprisingly nice stuff there.

__________________
So many aquascapes, so little time...http://www.my-mac.net/forum/

Cnt, Dom & Standoyo,

Thanks for the helpful info.

1) Will probably start off with plants that require low light and easy maintainence.

FYI, I went by to 88 Marine (Sunwaymas) & Han Yang (Klang, so Bl**dy far) Both currently have very limited stock and there are not very nice. 88 Marine will have new stocks from Wednesday onwards (plants prices reasonable). will check it out later, while Han Yang (plants prices are not cheap eventhough it is in Klang) (the guy Yik says that he gets his stock from JB and as u know it, it is flooded, so not likely to get any new stocks for awhile (he gets his stocks every Friday). Kin Fatt in Kepong also very limited plants, prices are cheaper than the other 2.


2) The guy Yik says that 2x 20W are definitely not enough light. So am likely to get another set of lighting, where to get the T5 tube & how much & is it a 20w as well ? I know 88 Marine can modify my existing light, but I would rather get another one first. I have read Phillips or NEC brand light tube are good (selling at East Aqua in Ikano). Anyone know where will be a good place to get reasonable lighting set & light tube?

7) What is "PP or Peroxide will do" ?

I was told that the bio medium cannot be use after 1-2 yrs. Is this true ? (forgot the name, I have those red color looking one - for RM45 for 500g) Can the bacteria grow back again if I have used a few type of medicine in my tank with my filters on ? Dom, how much are those ADA bacteria ball ? Han Yang- they dont have it.

What about liquid fertiliser ? For maintainence having read in the forum, I can use the PDMM made by someone by the name YTLim for Rm18 (500g). Can I use this as my "all-in-one" solution for my tank to maintain my plants & substrate? This will be a cheaper alternative than those in the market that you need several types like tablets, liquids, etc. is this true ?

I hope to plant this week but I understand that there is a planted tank contest happening in Ikano this staturday, but not sure what time though ? Anyone of you go there. Will be great to meet some sifu there.

Am thinking of getting some ideas on seeing some beautiful planted tanks, before I start mine.

Cheers

Yes, as Dom mentioned, crypts are also good for low light. In fact tats wat i mostly have in my tank now. Easy to keep and low maintenance. But not easy to find. Its not as available like other common weekly plant supplies. Other shops u may want to try, the small fish shop in CentrePoint BU, lots of non-common plants but pricey. Also check 88 Subang, i find their plant stocks got more varieties.

Am not familliar with the newer tubes. Im using PCs or PLL as Dom calls it. I find its the most compact and powerfull u can fit in any lite casing. Phillips part no.865 something. I have 14 of them over my 6' all on electronic ballasts. DIY.

As Dom says. More lites == more heat == higher water temp. Another reason why im growing crypts, my water temps 28-30. Too high for the nice fancy plants tat require temp at 26.

A friendly caution about SAEs. They tend to grow big, at 4 inches, then they become the main attraction in the tank. And i think they only good for brush algae.

Dont under-estimate the power of yamatos. I once had an army of them, ate all kinds of algae. Then they went for the java fern. Reduced it to twigs.

PP == potasium peroxide. Killer medication stuffs. I hv naver used it. I tend to stay away from meds.

Id say bio-mediums can be re-used/re-cycled any amount. As long as no medications were used before. If in doubt, safest is just replace new.

Fertilising is something i never mastered. Hv tried most kinds sold in market. Didnt see much diff. If not careful with dosage, algae will bloom. Only using Sera tablets now, very sparringly. Another reason im not fert much is coz i have a hi bio-load. I have discus, tetras, corys in my tank.

Wasnt aware of contest at Ikano. Will try to make it. Me also need some new ideas n inspiration.

Have fun gardenning

I think for plants, the LFS regulate prices. HY is a big importer of plants and most of orders go thru them.
For a newbie, all plants are new. For the oldie , we know new not cheap!!!
KF is well known to give very discounted prices an is favourite of a lot of hobbyists. Enough said.

Lighting is a get it once and for all thing- buy a moderately good one that you think will last you 5 years.
Mine are all falling apart- someof the nice when new ones. Less than two years and the plastic end caps are spring loaded!

PP is potassium permanganate KMnO4- it's a disinfectant that is highly oxidizing. Bacteria and viruses burst in this solution.[practically a bomb component-as such is banned in some countries] Peroxide[H202] is oxygen bleach. Same effect. A necessity when you deal with expensive fauna and need to disinfect equipment eg netting, pails etc. Many uses.


Fertlization
Feed your plants or they die. Simple.
NPK aka macros-plants need a lot of this
Trace elements aka micros-plants need teeny amounts of this.

Basic-NPK- Nitrogen Phosphorus Potassium/Kalium
N&P produced thru nitrogen cycle when you feed your fauna. This amount is dependant on your bioload. If you get BGA then you know you have too few fauna or lack N-NO3
K you have to supply from day one.
Some of them are Brighty K, Super K, Flourish Potassium with their own secret ratios and other stuff in.

Trace elements
Premixed in secret ratios as per manufaturer
Some of these are called broad spectrum, meaning they include macros as well.
ADA has step series + their other modifiers like ECA, etc.
Sera florena, JBL ferropol, Nutrafin Iron Grow plus, Dennerle V30,
Seachem Flourish trace.
Tropica Aquacare plant nutrition[used to be TMG].

The key is to watch out for plant growth, algae growth and other things to tell what's missing or too much. That will take awhile. This is but the start...

__________________
So many aquascapes, so little time...http://www.my-mac.net/forum/

My interpretation of the waterflow pump is a powerhead with a venturi to supply the tank with additional water flow and also aeration. It is a good idea to have lots of circulation in a planted tank to ensure that the CO2 and nutrients get to all parts of the tank. Of course, not so much water current that it uproots all the plants!

Aeration, however, is not needed during photosynthesis when you want the CO2 level to be high and the vigorous aeration provided by the powerhead will only cause the CO2 to be dissipated into the atmosphere. However, during lights out, it is a good idea to have some aeration to aid the growth of beneficial bacteria and also to ensure that the oxygen levels don't drop to dangerous levels. This is especially important if you have a tank well stocked with fishes.

In conclusion, I would add the powerhead if you don't have sufficient water circulation and only activate the venturi at night when lights are off.

Thanks for the further info.

I am still processing all the information that you guys are telling me.

Anyway, I have PLANTED my tank ! well, it was kind of difficult to source for the plants that I wanted. Ended up getting whatever I see & like and avaliable in the lfs. I had to go to 4 places, East Aqua Ikano, 88 Marine (sunwaymas), NA, etc.

I don't think I got any of those low light plants nevetheless, I got another new lighting with (2x 20w) so total 80 w (plus my existing set) hopefully, it will be fine. I got the lighting from Jln Pasar, the guy sold my some cheap Taiwan made tube for 10 buck. Anyway, anyone use thse tube from Taiwan before? well, since it is relatively cheap, will use it first and see how it goes.


Will probably up load a picture later to show all the sifu.....

I have used Taiwan tubes before - not really as bright and didn't last long

__________________
The nose runs and the feet smell - go figure
Steven