Quarantin Procedures for Discus in new homes

[standoyo]

Originally Posted by btlee

Chiak lat lah,

I have been using about 12 table spoon for a 4 ft tank (full ).
In the last 3 months I must have used more than I kg of salt per week ( 2 tank 50% water change every day ), so, maybe in total more than 20 kilo lah........
Sundry shop boss wondering why?.........
.........eat salt more than eat rice?............

Cheers!

BT Lee

bt i'm more siao i assure you. i've used almost 3kg of salt this week...that's only for 1000liters of aq...

[standoyo]

hi it's me the PITA again,

found that recommended salt bath for discus is 300g/100l for 1/2 minute to 1/2 hour. so i've been salting my fish...and this is for treatment.

for quarantine i'd try chong's method at 30g per 100 liter...

humble apologies...

stan

[btlee]

Dear Stan,

You have to recheck your latest posting.
2ppt ( not ppm ) salt is 2 gram per litre ( 1 litre being 1000gram ).
So 100 litre will need 200 gram and a typical 4 ft tank ( full ) is about 220 litre or 440 gram of salt.
The half hour bath call for a much higher concentration of 3% ( if I am not mistaken ) that is 30 ppt meaning 3 kg for 100 litre.
I have tried it once months ago none of them died although they were half dead after the half hour.

Beside the above, may I suggest that we state our reason for quaranteen.
That is to say, be more specific as to why we want to quaranteen.

Cheers!

BT Lee

[nicholaskhoo]

I think better to change the tile to "Salting Procedures for Discus in new homes"...muahahaha...

Okie, as for me....quarantine discus is a must. But for how long? At least a month (roadspike, 1 week is too risky!! )...to be on the safe side to prevent any major outbreak or wipe out all your discus. Though it doesn't guarantee this, at least we all know that the risk has been minimized. One major problem is that certain outbreaks or disease will only manifest itself after a month or more. So, that's why I stress at least a month. I would normally start mixing newly bought fishes with my own batches after 3-4 months.

First 3-5 days I used salt (1 tablespoon for every 10 gallon), no feedings for at least 3 days (after that, small feedings and gradually increase the feedings overtime) and will treat quarantined fishes IF AND ONLY IF there're signs of clamped fins, cloudy eyes, bloated stomach or when it gets dark. I find that Potassium Permanganate, Formalin and lowering of ph helps tremendously.
Lowering of ph to help recover sick discus is outlined in the book Exotic Discus.

At the sametime, quarantine tanks should be disinfected if not used. I find bleaching & PP very effective.

[standoyo]

Originally Posted by btlee

Dear Stan,

You have to recheck your latest posting.
2ppt ( not ppm ) salt is 2 gram per litre ( 1 litre being 1000gram ).
So 100 litre will need 200 gram and a typical 4 ft tank ( full ) is about 220 litre or 440 gram of salt.
The half hour bath call for a much higher concentration of 3% ( if I am not mistaken ) that is 30 ppt meaning 3 kg for 100 litre.
I have tried it once months ago none of them died although they were half dead after the half hour.

Beside the above, may I suggest that we state our reason for quaranteen.
That is to say, be more specific as to why we want to quaranteen.

Cheers!

BT Lee

yes you are correct BT, andrew corrected me[slap], he said it's ppt-parts per thousand.

Quarantine is to ensure new fish do not introduce pathogens/parasites into your healthy tank. Especially is the fish is from different regions esp wild/imported fish.
Your fish may not be resistant to the bugs which the new fish[resistant to] are carrying.
This applies to any new tank mates you just bought. tetras, plecos, snails, plants, etc.
Safe than sorry. especially if you gonna introduce it into an ecosystem like a planted tank.

Nick, i'm afraid i'm one of those thick skulled people aka discus fishballer.

[Andrew Soh]

Hi to 'made in Malaysia' and all other friends,

Sorry to intrude...in normal quarantine 0.5 ppt (part per thousand) to 1 ppt is good for quarantine as that will prevent discus from dehydration (loss of salt) due to transport injuries (50 to 100gm per 100litre).

In treating ich (white spot), a dose of 2 ppt(200gm per 100litre water) is necessary.

In general estimation one half-closed-handful of salt to 100litre of water is about 1ppt.....but such estimation is not professional.

In the discus spleen, there is acertain amount of salt...as in most other fishes.....but different fishes have different concentration.

Guppy has 4ppt in their system (spleen) all the while so is platy (documentated), while discus...maybe 1 to 2. If a fish doesn't have salt in the spleen, even a small concentration of salt treatment would kill it.

Never subject your discus...even other fishes to 30ppt (3kg of salt) treatment for half an hour. That is seawater concentration and may cause irreversible damage...(over loading the liver)...... to discus.

This concentration of 30 ppt is also used in 'Stress test' especially for guppy (documentated) and in general, guppy tends to start dying in 35 minutes (eventhough there is 4ppt in the spleen)...and the longer it takes for all the 10 pieces of guppy to die, the average stress tolerant level is averaged and measured and thus is the reading. so, just imagine what will happen to our discus if put under half an hour treatment?

At best, 10ppt for an hour (1kg per 100litre for 1 hour) for discus......but not me.

Just my two cents,

Take care,
Andrew

[dswwong]

Well well......................

The Sifu has spoken ...finally.

Thanks for your valuable contributions towards this thread.

David

[btlee]

Luckily the 'sifu' has come in before its too late.
Don't know where I get the number 3% concentration for half hour treatment.
Must have mixed up with all the number and decimal point.
Just another question Andrew.
I have been putting about 200 gram of coarse salt into the discus tank of 200 litre ( top up 100 gram on daily 50% water change ) contineously for the last couple of months.
What is your opinion of this practice?

One side of tank ( 6 inches ) has been partitioned off as boilogical filter and sponge pre filter ( washed daily ).
Water pump (filter) rate about 15 litre per minutes.
2 air line.
18 pieces of average 4 inches discus in the 4 ft. tank
5 feeding per day, 2 times beef heart, 2 times tetrabits and 1 time frozen red worm.
PH about 6.6 ( using phosphorice acid )
Ammonium test kits shows 5 ppm total ammonium
I was hoping the salt will help prevent the fish from nitrite poisoning.

Your advise much appreciated.

Cheers!

BT Lee

[Andrew Soh]

Hi David,

Don't call me Sifu....I have a name and is Andrew..he!he!he!

And Lee, minor overlook is o.k.

Even in forums, I do make mistakes too......wanted to type 'wouldn't' but too fast and typed 'would'.......bad advise...might have killed somebody else discus..hm...

Anyway, 200gm to 200 litre tank is 1ppt and 50% WC redose with 100gm is still 1 ppt. This dose is safe in long term as have been mentioned discus too have at least 1ppt of salt in their spleen.

But then again, what is the purpose? So, I think there is no necessity even though not harmful.

When your discus is sick, we assume that there are wounds whether big or small...and this may result in dehydration thus salt of 1 ppt is important as part of a 'holistic treatment programme'.

AS to your biological filtration system, it should be at least one fifth of the total culture water (tank water space with discus). So, if you have 100 litre of water in your tank, 20 litre is for bio-filtration and 80 litre with discus....and nos. of discus of 4 inches or 100mm size allowed should not be more than 6 (my opinion). If it is flow-through system, you can put more...

Try not to feed worms whether live or frozen..this is my opinion. Let me tell you one thing...

If you use municipal water (treated with anti-chlorine)

Treat your discus to rid of pathogens before you introduce to the system

Maintain temperature between 25 to 28C

Feed only beefheart or processed food 3 to 5 times daily

Make frequent water change

Don't cross contaminate

Individual tank with individual nets and equipments

No live nor frozen freshwater animals as feed

If live feed is preferred, use artemia.

Your discus hobby will be trouble free!!!!

If your system is running well, you should have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite....check your system.

If you are using bioflitration system, do not adjust pH below 6.6. Between 6.9 to 6.1 pH, the efficiency of nutrifying bacteria drops as they are stressed. Put your pH to 6 and below, they cannot proliferate and will die off...so your system will break down.
Best to put pH for biological flitration system at 7 to 7.5....this is the range they are active.

Hope I am not talking too much

Take care,
Andrew

[Whoopee]

Thanks Andrew for the detailed and good avice!

I'm sure we all siao kakis appreciate it...also would live and sleep with it day and night!


Cheers!