Anyone interested in Japanese Ranchu?

[yeemiau]

Originally Posted by squareballs

only problem is the price is too expensive...

Yea... that's why we are working so hard here with the Japanese breeders to solve this problem. We wanna make this hobby affordable to all. Singaporean has done a fair bit of import and yet the price still high.... Say, OK quality ones selling S$70 to S$100 (One of our group got 2 back here).. i've got feedback that poeple in malaysia selling RM500 each onwards. Most expensive one I've came across is USD700. All those price is for baby ranchu only. Shocking.....

We are in frequent communication with breeders from Nagano and Hamamatsu. Hope our plan will work out fine. Most of all, I have to highlight here that My group doing this is not for business. It is only for promoting the Japanese Ranchu in Malaysia.

Will update on progress....

[yeemiau]

Originally Posted by galactuz

Yeemiau,

Are you sure the Japanese will give purebred goldfish for free?? I really doubt that. Most of this Japanese breeders are a closely knit community and the bloodline is like a herritage passed down only within their community like a national treasure.

I'm quite skeptical. But if you've obtained them for free then I have nothing else to say.

that's why I mention... passion, not business. If for business, we will import it quietly and sell 'em to you guys at a good price.

but I wanna highlight that we are dealing with the old schools. Younger breeders seems more business minded.

[ghkiat]

Ohhh..Thanks man...got FOC Ranchu also.ahh..good i want i want...previously i though Gold fish only RM10-30 fish only...but after i go in...walau errhhh...more expensive then Discus man....i like Side view ranchu..any recommanded?

[galactuz]

[quote=yeemiau]

Originally Posted by goldfishbuddy

My apologies for being straight forward... one is true ranchu and the other is fake ranchu. These are a few thread in this forum touches this topic, here and there. Basically, Japanese only recognise their own bloodlines as pedegree. Those from China, breeder doesn't really care about bloodline... they only care about business.

Yeemiau,

I find your statement quite offending and biased towards the Chinese breeders. Although no doubt they are business oriented because they are a business entity compared to your sensei in Japan which mostly bred them for passion. So different people has different goals and objectives.

I think a ranchu is a ranchu and there's nothing called true/fake ranchu. Is either a pedigree bred or not. BTW I think it was well recognised that goldfish originated from China and not Japan. The Japanese turned the keeping of goldfish into an art that elevated it to another level. Both side deserves credit don't you think??

[yeemiau]

[quote=galactuz]

Originally Posted by yeemiau

Yeemiau,

I find your statement quite offending and biased towards the Chinese breeders. Although no doubt they are business oriented because they are a business entity compared to your sensei in Japan which mostly bred them for passion. So different people has different goals and objectives.

I think a ranchu is a ranchu and there's nothing called true/fake ranchu. Is either a pedigree bred or not. BTW I think it was well recognised that goldfish originated from China and not Japan. The Japanese turned the keeping of goldfish into an art that elevated it to another level. Both side deserves credit don't you think??

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

My statement is all based on facts. If you say Lionhead or so called tigerhead. No doubt it is originated from China. Ranchu is the offspring from those, after much hardwork and generations of development. Naturally, Japanese named the offspring "Ranchu". Many years ago, chinese breeders imported Ranchu to China for MASS breeding yet it did not match the conformation of a true ranchu. But with the name ranchu, the fish can fetch a better price. Yet hardly anyone at that time able to bring in Japanese breed due to communication problems. Even now, if someone able to bring Japanese Ranchu in, the price tag will be sky high. Why? Just because it is rare and expert hobbist knows it is THE pedigree; the mark up and margin is at least 150-200%. (Our group has imported ourself a batch of 73 last year for our own raising skill practice use and we know the cost very well.)

Obviously, we can see the short body it has, as well as the formation of the wen; yet, they name it Ranchu and export it to other country. It is fair enough that people willing to pay for a sub-standard "so-called pedigree" with certain price tag, that's business which I can't complain about; business is business. But it is not fair to the ranchu hobbist. By right, they can only name it Chinese Goldfish but we cannot stop them naming it ranchu. But officially, the Japanese Goldfish Association does not recognise this so-called bloodline. Most of all, by the standard, there is no side view standard for Ranchu; it's only for top view. We also have the annual AJRS report plus judging rules and regulations for the past many years; and with our understanding of the Ranchu conformation as stated in the rule book, chinese "ranchu" standard and conformation is not even close to that.

Ok, let's be fair to all. I'm only streamline in Kyokai bloodline. Still there's Uno and Oosakaranchu bloodline, that my group knows a little bit. In any angle, we don't see any Chinese "ranchu" matching the main characteristic of those mentioned bloodline. When ones cannot conform to the characteristic, it only considered as "normal goldfish" or, as Japanese explained "TanKyo" (Egg Fish); not Ranchu. For extreme example, we can't name a Boxer as "BullDog". Or, there's no such thing as "Chinese Sushi" Also, Alvin Lim, Chairman of Vermillion Goldfish Club and Ozeki Ranchu Club from Singapore has a more-or-less same point of view. You can ask him about it IF he comes to Malaysia for goldfish competition visit.

Even before I know about this fact, I've spend thousands on Chinese "ranchu" too. Until I dig deep enough to know the fact. All my group want to do is to send a clear message to all about the fact behind these Ranchu business. People sell Chinese "Ranchu" might really hate us about it but that's the fact we wanna bring out. I'm not 110% sure that I know the head to toe history about Ranchu, but I'm pretty sure that what I wrote in this post has all the facts behind it.

Some fact, 1748 is the year of the official naming of the fish as 卵虫 or らんちゅう or Ranchu/Rantyu. but in writing, 蘭鋳 means better than 卵虫, (almost identical pronouncation) therefore today's 蘭鋳 or Ranchu/Rantyu. In １８８5, 石川亀吉 (ishikawa kameyoshi, now you know why Ishikawa's Ranchu is so so so expen$$$ive!) starts the first competition then slowly, it spread into 3 bloodlines; and, in 1956 日本らんちゅう協会 ( Japan Ranchu Association) formed therefore the AJRS.

Finally, if you can read chinese, you can visit www.lanshou.net. There is a report done by someone in neutral groud explaining the whole history of people from Fuk Joe, Mainland China (I hope i got the spelling right) bringing in Ranchu from Japan in the 80s and cross breed it with Lionhead to create the current "Chinese Ranchu". Or you can use internet translation to translate http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~ranncyuu/ranncyuu.html to know the history of Ranchu (How the fish is developed, naming, spreading, etc.)

I hope my explaination doesn't offend anyone, If it does, please except my sincere apologies but it is just facts that I'm putting in.

Lastly, I have to make it clear that many other Ranchu breeders (for business) in Japan carries the same attitude as my sensai. Business with passion, ethics and dignity.

[Pilik-Palak]

yeemiau,
thanks,for clear it up .good job.

before i meet this Ipoh fellas.i do confuse between this two fish know as ranchu and chinese ranchu.so i do a check on the japanese web site and found out that the names as ranchu is so complicated.

it was an accident found out that our local ppls hv involved in real japanese ranchu.i was so excited and post about them in this forum.I was shock when one of the member p.m me and eventually join us as families.Also meet them here in pj.when they kindly explain the true fact about the technic of grooming ranchu, then it comes in my mind that i was totally wrong in grooming goldfish for so long even in breeding them.All those knowledge on book and given by some ppls was not enough and some of them given me wrong info.

Now i hv2 start from bottom line again regarding on knowledge on breeding goldfish specially on our own butterfly tail.Now i want to start breeding our butterfly tail using japanese style on breeding and grooming the fish.Here i really hope that i can successfully grooming our butterfly tail just like grooming tosakin and keep them in tosakin bowl.hope for the best .cheers.

[galactuz]

Yeemiau,

Points taken.

As I said earlier I'm not a goldfish nor discus breeder nor am I affliated to any of the goldfish selling workshop. Most of the people here know I'm a guppy hobbyist (now). Just trying to put things into perspective and looking it at a neutral way.

Anyway it is a nice discussion. Do keep us updated with all your adventures Mebbe I'll join you guys one day. I've admired ranchu for a long time but there are constraints like anyone here.

[yeemiau]

Originally Posted by galactuz

Yeemiau,

Points taken.

As I said earlier I'm not a goldfish nor discus breeder nor am I affliated to any of the goldfish selling workshop. Most of the people here know I'm a guppy hobbyist (now). Just trying to put things into perspective and looking it at a neutral way.

Anyway it is a nice discussion. Do keep us updated with all your adventures Mebbe I'll join you guys one day. I've admired ranchu for a long time but there are constraints like anyone here.

Always good to have a question like yours, so we can really explain something that benefits hobbist. No worries, we are working hard here to solve everyone's common constrain in order to keep Ranchu. There's many hard work has done and these 2-3 months is pretty critical if we will succeed. keeping fingers crossed.

[Pilik-Palak]

just across these links and i found the r so many shape in ranchus.Which is the right type of ranchu shape?...At the link there some ranchu with wen just look like chinese lionhead ,some without bufflo chin.

here is the links,

http://www.tim.hi-ho.ne.jp/kousaka-kingyo/page002.html

http://www.tim.hi-ho.ne.jp/kousaka-kingyo/page004.html

http:http://www.kingyozaka.com/online/kin...tyu/rantyu.htm

http://scgoldfish.com.tw/

what ranchu is this?.
P/s:kindly explain to us what the links said?.thanks.

[Pilik-Palak]

look at this type of ranchu .it look SO WEIRD...just like chinese lionhead and this ranchu also hv guideline..www.yumeranchu.gr.jp/index_new.php .
videocam http://www.yumeranchu.gr.jp/index_ne...set=dairy3.inc

Translate from Google language tool: http://translate.google.com/translat...language_tools

Pls,provided some info on this links?.thanks